[00:00:00] Speaker A: This show is a part of the FM Podcast Network, the home of great music podcasts. Visit
[email protected] youm are listening to the Dylan Taunts podcast.
Hey everyone, I'm Jim Salvucci of the Dylan Tons and welcome to the latest installment of Million Dollar Bash. It's that Million Dollar Bash, we're going to change it up a bit. In the spirit of holiday festivities today we're going to have a pretty open roundtable. Our regular bashers will have the opportunity to let loose in response to some open ended prompts. I will select a question from a shuffle deck of cards and use a virtual spinner to select who gets to respond. So let's meet the bashers. First up is Nina Goss. Say hi, Nina.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Hello.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Then we've got Court Carney by everyone.
Graylee Hearn.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: Hey there.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Ern Callahan.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Hey everyone.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: And Rob Roginio.
[00:01:02] Speaker D: Hey everybody. Good to see you.
[00:01:05] Speaker A: Great to see you all here. Let's get started. And first thing I'm going to do is I am going to spin our spinner and I'm going to show it. If you're watching this on video, you'll be able to see this. If not, just imagine a virtual spinner.
We're going to click on it.
[00:01:25] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Oh, and our first guest, everybody called it is Court.
[00:01:31] Speaker E: That is fancy. That's some fancy tech you got here.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: That's some fancy tech. I googled randomized selector and got that for free. So the first question is, the first question is the best Dylan album or albums in your opinion? Albums could be more than one?
[00:01:54] Speaker E: I don't know. We think about this and it'd be fun to kind of randomize this and we can pick each other's favorite album. We could do that.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Do you want to try that?
[00:02:04] Speaker E: No, I don't want to try that.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think so.
[00:02:08] Speaker E: So is it best or favorite?
[00:02:10] Speaker A: Either one.
[00:02:11] Speaker E: Favorite. I. I think we can get hip on this, but I've been listening a lot to this little record. I don't know, we don't talk about as much as the others. It's called Blonde on Blonde and it just rules. I just think Blonde on Blonde's great and I go back to it occasionally. I forget just how cool the whole entire thing is. And I mean, I don't know, I could try to get mysterious but I'm just gonna call it. I think Blonde on Blonde's one that you can go back to. It has a sound, it's got a feel, it's got a vibe, it's great. Final answer, then.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Wild Mercury sound, no less.
[00:02:42] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah. The COVID I mean, in the image. I mean, right.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: The full length holdout. The title.
[00:02:49] Speaker E: And it's two records for you, so you get the plural. Yeah.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: All right, any. Anyone else want to weigh in on that? Respond.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: How the game works.
[00:03:03] Speaker C: Is overruling that question. Jim.
[00:03:07] Speaker E: I think I could call Errands maybe. Can I call it Errands maybe?
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Go for it, G. Go.
[00:03:12] Speaker E: Infidels. Are you just gonna say you're just saying that because you said.
[00:03:15] Speaker F: I'm not just saying that. I actually thought.
[00:03:18] Speaker E: I'm like infidels. Love and theft. John Wesley Harding and Nina, I don't know. You're going to surprise me. Tempest.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Yes, Tempest. You're right. I was gonna say. Oh, my God.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Oh, my God.
[00:03:32] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: On the tracks, I think we should.
[00:03:36] Speaker F: Just say yes to everything Court said because that's my vibe for 2025. I agree with everything Court said.
[00:03:43] Speaker E: Y a bad. That's a bad coin.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: That was a great call, Tempest. All right, well, let's move on to another question. And I'm just going to spin the spinner, not show it this time. You're just going to have to trust me. I'm not likes.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: Everyone likes to see it. The.
[00:04:02] Speaker F: I'm adapting.
I agree with Nina.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: It's a delayed. It's a delayed thing. That's the only problem.
[00:04:09] Speaker E: Sustained.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: All right, we will go. We will do this.
Random man.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Look at that.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: And is.
All right.
[00:04:20] Speaker C: From Court to spark.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: Court to spark. Here's a question. What do you think of Dylan as a guitarist? Tread lightly.
[00:04:29] Speaker F: What do I think of Dylan as a guitarist? My last. Can I do a humble brag? My last experience with him was in Paris when he opened with the guitar both nights. And that was pretty fucking fantastic. I think he. Yeah, I mean, I think I dig his finger picking. I think he's a good guitarist. I don't know that I have that much to say other than I enjoy his guitar playing. And I think when he started playing in Paris in October, I lost my mind because it was pretty. It. It blew the house. I mean, like, it just tore the house down. So he still has it, despite the arthritis. So I really have nothing else to add there.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: Okay, I take it who's playing lead guitar?
[00:05:08] Speaker F: Yep.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: Yeah. His quirky leads. Anyone else on that score?
We move on to next victim. All right, next victim, then. We're going to spin the wheel.
We can't do Aaron twice in a row.
[00:05:29] Speaker C: That's not cool.
[00:05:30] Speaker F: Yeah, I'm not doing that.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: It should have a feature to prevent that. No, we can't do chord again.
[00:05:34] Speaker E: Come on, just find me this random.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Oh, come on.
[00:05:40] Speaker D: It's not quite random.
[00:05:41] Speaker E: This is the TSA random.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: It really should really should have something to block that. So, Nina, you're up.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: And I finish using one.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: You'll get this one. You'll like this one.
A beloved or particularly pithy Dylan quote.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Oh, I don't know.
I have to think of that. He spoke verbally. Not a lot.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: It doesn't matter.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: I can't do that.
I can't think off the top of my head of something.
Something pithy that he said.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Okay, anybody else have a good quote from Dylan?
[00:06:23] Speaker E: Terrible at this. I'll be like, it's that time he said that thing about, like, growing up. Like that.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: That thing about growing up and growing older and dying.
That song.
[00:06:33] Speaker E: He had it right that time.
[00:06:36] Speaker F: I always go to. You should have said this to me last night, Court. If you needed my autograph, I'd give it to you.
[00:06:43] Speaker E: Popcorn. I would have given it to you.
[00:06:45] Speaker F: Look, I asked you 10 times.
[00:06:46] Speaker E: There's the.
[00:06:48] Speaker D: I like the 65 San Francisco press conference. You know, we all like motorcycles to a certain degree.
In response to the obsessive fan, when.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: He says, would you ask the Beatles that?
Yeah, I think that's. That's it.
[00:07:10] Speaker E: You guys like the Anarchist?
[00:07:12] Speaker C: A cigarette?
[00:07:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Excellent. All right. That was a good response.
Let's go on to the next big question and get that spinner spinning. And we got Rob.
[00:07:29] Speaker E: There we go.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: All right. Rock and Rob.
And so a go to non biographical book about Dylan. Not by him.
[00:07:42] Speaker C: Oh, geez.
[00:07:43] Speaker D: I would have to say. And this will please several people here. I think a Go to Dylan book for me is one of Paul Williams books.
[00:07:55] Speaker C: Definitely top of the top show.
[00:07:59] Speaker D: Yeah. No, always find, even when it's territory that has been covered by many folks before about songs that we know a lot about, Even when it is stuff that I am saying. Oh, I remember William said something interesting about this. And so I go back to the book to look it up. There's always something new and insightful that I find in it. So, yeah, that's what that's. That would be my answer to that.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Okay. Got a good positive response. Anybody else have another author or book to throw out there?
[00:08:33] Speaker B: I love this simple twist of fate. The book on Blood on the Tracks by.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Is that Oligarch?
[00:08:42] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great book. Cool. All right, next one up.
I don't know why it's so hard to share. Here we go.
Round, round it goes. Rob again. Come on.
This thing has all these features, but it doesn't have.
[00:09:03] Speaker E: There we go.
[00:09:04] Speaker A: All right. Greatly hearn. Let's go. So, next question up. What do you think of Dylan as a harmonica player?
[00:09:15] Speaker C: Wow.
So, first I. Let me say that Dylan as a harmonica player is universally despised by the students I have taught Dylan to over the last decade. I mean, over and over again. I mean, sometimes they'll literally stick their fingers in their ears when I'm playing tracks with Dylan playing harmonica. They dislike it so, so much. Too much. I mean, sometimes it is shrill. I mean, I can't deny sometimes you. You check to make sure blood is not dripping from your. From your ears as you listen to it. But it can be sublime. I mean, Mr. Tambourine man and Every Grain of Sand and. Oh, my God, I've just recently been re. Listening to. To the 2023 bootleg of Dylan Cincinnati concert in the Brady Center. And the way. I mean, the closing harmonica on Every Grain of Sand, it's like opening the gates of heaven. I mean, it is celestial. It is a holy experience.
And so I led with the downside that it can be shrill and hard to listen to. But I want to end with what I really think, which is that when it is done well and it is done well so often it is one of the best things about Bob Dylan and think, oh, my God, at that harmonica at the end of I'm Not There. I know we waxed on that in another episode, but, oh, my God, I could not be more beautiful.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Yeah. That was from a live performance of Mr. Tambourine Man.
[00:10:43] Speaker E: So that's the 66 stuff. And whatever he's doing in 66 with harmonica is up there with. I'm not going to be. I'm not even being facetious. I think it's up there. There with like, Cold Trade in terms of circular breathing or whatever.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: Oh, my God, absolutely.
[00:10:57] Speaker E: And I also think the only negative I've ever thought about would be the remastered John Wesley Har. When they remastered the cd, Rob. And I don't. Yeah, but they remastered it. And the remastered CD version, his harmonica is very harsh. But like on the. On the LP and everything, it's beautiful, but I think that's where it can be a little. That's just a mass remixing thing.
[00:11:18] Speaker D: Yeah. And that. That was an album. That was not many retakes in the studio, so they only had certain takes to work with.
[00:11:28] Speaker E: And I think the c. The. The. The way they redid the CD sounds just way harsher than it sounded.
[00:11:35] Speaker D: Yeah, it absolutely does. The vi. The. The original releases sound sound better for that particular. That particular album.
[00:11:43] Speaker E: But it's, it's.
[00:11:44] Speaker D: It's still shrill. I'll have to tell you. I've been listening to that album quite a bit obviously and it is piercing at times purposefully so. But I love. I was just waxing on favorite harmonica moments here just in terms of the recorded output. Don't Fall Apart on Me Tonight where it kind of leads the song. It's just. He's just so fluent in leading the song with the harmonica where that it comes in before the melody. I. Yeah. So I would agree with grilly 100%. My students even a gem like Girl of the north country. My students were like I hate that song. And I said what are you talking about? Harmonica.
[00:12:28] Speaker C: I know.
[00:12:28] Speaker D: All right. Harmonica aside, please. Yes. So yeah it's a. It's. It sometimes is an impediment to. From students to enjoy the music.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: But I'd be curious to know if they all change their. Well pun unintended but their tune after this movie comes out right or all of a sudden is it going to be hip Dylan San.
[00:12:51] Speaker E: There is a 45 minute scene when.
[00:12:53] Speaker A: He'S at the Hohner factory buying his latest Marine Band.
[00:12:59] Speaker E: I'll also say this that I adore his playing so much that I think for harmonicas when you get too technical and beautiful. I hate it. Like it's a real turn off. I'm not going to mention. But they're really famous harmonica players. I just cannot stand. But give me Neil Young and give me Dylan and that's like. That's all I want to hear.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Into a modernist jazz inflected instrument. He did that single handedly. That. He did that on Blonded Blonde. He does that in the 66 shows. It's just. I can't imagine.
I'm just getting at building up a head of steam thinking about people that don't.
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Oh.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: That don't hear the innovative, innovative work he did with. In the 60s with the harmonica.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: And he's credited enough.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: I'm a Rolling Stone span and with Jagger is the gold standard of rock harmonica player.
[00:13:53] Speaker E: But he's doing that with a rack too. He's not.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: I know. Man sucking. Talk about tonal breast control.
[00:14:01] Speaker F: Really.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: It's amazing to watch him. That's mind blowing. That's.
[00:14:05] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: The tambourine man at the end of.
[00:14:08] Speaker D: That's a really great point. He's not using his hands to modulate the sound in any way.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: Yeah, And I love that. I'm sure you. You all read it too. But there was that great interview with Mickey Raphael that Ray Padgett did on Flagging down the Double east. And that's a guy who's often credited as the best harmonica player out there. Right. And he was saying over and over again how blown away he is by Bob Dylan's harmonica playing and what a formative influence it was on how he approached his whole harmonica playing. His whole approach to harmonica is based on Bob Dylan, he said. So that just reinforces Nina's point that even harmonica players think this guy's mountaintop good.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: He's a harmonica player's harmonica player. I've got to read you something. So this just came out in the latest Atlantic. I don't know if you saw this article about Dylan called I forgot the title. Bob Dylan's Carnival act by James Parker. And he's talking about Dylan's appeal. And early on he says it wasn't his magicianship as a guitarist. He was stumpy and street level. And his God awful harmonica playing now sounds like a kind of comic punctuation. The harmonica less a musical instrument than a place to put his face after delivering especially jagged.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: This guy. I'm like, go back to Tik Tok, Mr. Parker.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: I don't think he's quite that young, but okay. So I just wanted to read that to you in the spirit of what we're doing here.
All right, next question up. So I'm going to spin the wheel one more time.
And now we can suffer repeats Court again. All right, Clearly. And oh, Wild card. That means you get to ask any of your fellow panelists any question you want.
[00:16:09] Speaker E: Oh, it's the wild card.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the wild card.
He's drinking heavily.
[00:16:17] Speaker E: Just for the audience.
Who do I want to hear from?
Mina.
What? I think we've talked about this, but I'm just curious right now. So what is your. What record was the entry point for you?
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Oh, that's a good question.
Chronicles was the entry point for me.
That was the thing that changed my life was Chronicles. And then I started buying whatever that was. Do you remember Tower Records? That was. I would just go into Tower and buy whatever they had. But. And it was probably bringing it all back home and was probably the first album that I listened to obsessively.
And then I tried to move chronologically.
[00:17:08] Speaker F: So, Nina, we love the story about defending.
You already told it. It's in the archives on the Dylan Taunts but about feeling like you had to defend Bob Dylan when you went to the talk.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: When I went where?
[00:17:23] Speaker F: When you went to the talk, I think it was Grail. Marcus gave a talk on Chronicles?
[00:17:28] Speaker B: No, he. Yeah, his, Like a Rolling Stone book had just come out, so he was promoting that at the Nine at a in the City, and he said it was right when Chronicles had come out. So someone asked him, wasn't he a concern that Dylan's own book would, you know, trump his? And he said, oh, no, I'm sure it was.
He said, I knew it was. I thought it was going to be like a big coffee table thing, book with pictures, and we'd have Xeroxes of napkins with song lyrics on it. It wouldn't be. And I sat there and I thought, I don't even know you. I don't know anything about this. And I just know Bob Dylan is not going to put out crap like that. And I was right. And that's the story.
I'm done.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Excellent. Our first wild card. An excellent wild card.
All right, so another spin of the wheel.
Can't do Nina. Two times in a row, she got asked by court.
Let's try this.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: But maybe it'll be a wild card.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Oh, it keeps coming, Nina. Okay. It's got to be. It's got to be.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: Nina.
I want a wild card.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: You want to allow.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: Just make it a wild card. So.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: No, you know what? I'm going to make it a wild card.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: All right.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: All right. Wild Cardena.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Okay, Graylee, what's the last song you want to hear ever?
As you shuffle off this mortal coil? What's the very last song you want to hear?
[00:19:09] Speaker C: So this is a variation on your question, but it's one I've thought a lot about, and I've kept to myself for years.
But I'm among friends, and so I will share that. God, I think I'm going to get emotional just thinking about it. I guess we all know that the dreadful day will come when Bob's not with us anymore. And I have thought, what do I want to list? What's the first Bob Dylan song I want to listen to after I hear that?
And it's actually dear Mrs. Roosevelt because he played that at the Woody Guthrie tribute concert.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: All right?
[00:19:50] Speaker C: And it's a Woody song that is like a eulogy and a sympathy card for Eleanor Roosevelt after the death of a larger than life figure in Franklin Roosevelt. But clearly Dylan had it in mind, because Woody was that to him. And God knows Dylan is that to all of us.
And I've. I think I actually gone a long time without hearing that song.
And I think I heard it maybe on a definitely Dylan episode. And as soon as I heard it, I knew that's the song. And I've made a point of not listening to it since then. And I'm going to continue to make a point of not listening to it, even though I've blurted it out to the world here, because that's my first post Dylan song.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: Thank you. That's the most interesting response we've had so far.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: It was a great response. So, Grayley, you just exposed yourself as a baseball fan with that superstitious wrap up there about not listening.
He's also wearing his lucky socks, just so everybody knows. His round table socks.
[00:21:05] Speaker C: If you've got the video on, you can see my Reds jacket right now.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: All right, spin it again.
Aaron, you're up.
And your question is. That's a similar one you had before.
What do you think of Dylan as a pianist or piano player, whichever you prefer.
[00:21:26] Speaker F: And, or, and, or. I think. I think he's all right. I think there are times that he's a little clinky. I think about the Chicago shows where I was kind of sitting there thinking, well, what the hell is he doing? Because it doesn't sound. I mean, it just gets a little bit too jazz. Impresario, maybe is the word I'm looking for. But I just. Sometimes when he's on and other times I'm a bit confused. I think he goes a little bit too far into. My words are at a loss. I think he just goes too far into improvisation and I can't always follow it. So maybe it's me. It's my.
My flaw in listening. But when he's on, I think it's great. And when he's having fun and he's. The band is on and when they're on point, I think he's fantastic. But I think especially in the early Rough and Rowdy Ways tours, because I saw shows, because I saw so many of them, there were some times where I just thought it was a little too much for me.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: What about overall? His whole. What about overall. From the start, his whole career, not just the current tour. What do you think, Aaron?
[00:22:38] Speaker F: I mean, I think it's fine. I.
I don't know.
I mean, that's where I'm going to end. I think that he is passable.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: He's.
[00:22:48] Speaker F: Again, there's nothing that I can really, that stands out to me right now other than the most recent live Shows that I've seen, but I apologize, but maybe you can edit this out, because I just. I've got nothing.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Okay, well, I think you had plenty. Anybody else?
[00:23:03] Speaker F: No, I don't. Thank you.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: That painter that he was friendly with out on the island that did the mural, Blood on the Tracks cover, the alternate cover to Blood on the Tracks, that mural with that painting on the back. And then he was also a pianist, and Dylan said to him, can you help me with my piano playing? I want, you know, I want more technical finesse in my piano playing. And the guy said, that's like telling Picasso he's not using enough yellow. I would never touch your piano. But I. Yeah, I don't. I always find that the piano. When the piano is the most moving and riveting in a song, and then I'm always disappointed to find out that's not him playing it. And so. But I've been burned too many times with that.
[00:23:56] Speaker F: I think your recall for that was better than mine. Is it Norman Raven that you're talking about?
[00:24:01] Speaker B: No, the teacher. That's a teacher. Yeah.
[00:24:03] Speaker F: No, I get stumped and nervous and I just kind of freeze up and I'm like, yeah, I've got nothing like the things that I said I could say. But, no, I think you answered that beautifully. Thank you, Nina.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: I didn't answer it. I just offered an anecdote that could be apocryphal, but I seem to remember it.
[00:24:19] Speaker C: I'm afraid. I'm afraid to ask this now because there are certain.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: Is it your turn to ask a question?
[00:24:27] Speaker C: Oh, that's true.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: Anybody can jump in. Jump in.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: I'm only kidding.
[00:24:36] Speaker C: Because I never thought of that, that maybe there are certain beloved piano songs by Dylan that I'm loving the piano and it's not even played by Dylan. It hadn't even occurred to me to investigate that. For instance.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: It's depressing. You don't want to go there.
[00:24:51] Speaker C: Yeah, well, two spring to mind. And so I'm afraid to ask because maybe you'll let me know that they're not even Dylan. But I love Sign on the Window on New Morning. And of course, I love Blind Willie Mattel.
[00:25:04] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:05] Speaker C: And I sure hope those are Dylan because those are some of my favorite Dylan piano licks.
[00:25:10] Speaker E: It's like when you find out that Dear Prudence, the drums on Dear Prudence are Paul, not Ringo.
Yeah, Forever. I was like, that's one of my favorite Ringo performance. So good. It's actually Paul, and it's very sp. If you hear it Isolated, but it's perfect and beautiful within the song itself.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: See, I didn't even know that wild card.
[00:25:28] Speaker E: That was my beetle wild card.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: That was your beetle wild card all. Let's give her another spin. We'll get on to another topic and.
[00:25:41] Speaker F: Court.
[00:25:42] Speaker C: Oh, no.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: Perfect. All right, so you get favorite or most impactful Dylan moment. You can interpret that any way you want.
[00:25:54] Speaker E: We should all do this. This is great.
Most impactful. And I was thinking a lot about this, and this is going to be a boring answer or an obvious answer. I have a more recent one, but the boring one is the. I've really racked my brain in terms of what was the first song.
And I've really tried to think back at that moment, probably when I was in maybe late middle school or early high school, and I was like, what was that first song? That really grabbed me, and I had this epiphany, and I think this is true. But it was Subterranean Homesick Blues, and I think that was the song early on that really challenged me. And I've never bought a lot of the stuff people say about that song. In retrospect, I don't think he's doing anything revolutionary in terms of, like, first rap record. I don't think that's true. But I do think it's a really. It was a. It's a record that I hadn't. I didn't really know. And I think that kind of cracked my brain open a bit when I was younger. The other impactful, more recent. I think there's a particular song. But I'll say this. When we got to see him in Austin this last year or this year, God, this year has been 42 years long in earlier this year and just realizing how close you are to him, because it was a general admissions show and we were against the rail and the ability to, after all these years, be that close, like, physically so close in proximity to him, I thought was very impactful. And I'll say one more in the same tour, and that is Port Chester.
I saw Portchester, and it was one of the two times he did Footlights by Merle Haggard. And listening to him sing. I'm. The singer is 41 years old because Merle was 41 when he wrote the song. He was. I'm 41 years old and he's 82 when he's singing it. And just mentally doing the math while I'm listening to the song, in the presence of him going 41 times 2 and he's singing this song, I think that just Kind of took me out of the song a little bit, but then it kind of deepened it. I think that was a moment that I kept thinking about and wondering about as I walked around. So those are not all those, that sexy grouping of moments, but those are the ones I think about immediately.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Nice. I was going to put a question in there. What was the first Dylan song that caught your attention? But I was racking my brain.
[00:28:12] Speaker E: Mama, you're on My Mind was always up there in terms. But that was later. I was trying to think of the moment that I was like, who is this guy? I need to. I. I need to know more of. I think it was probably Subterranean.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: Where did you hear it?
Probably. Was it like radio or something?
[00:28:26] Speaker E: No, it probably was like an English. I had an English teacher who was really into doing rock and roll lyrics. And she was really into. At the time this would have been.
[00:28:35] Speaker C: You know, for all of us. It was a little while ago.
[00:28:38] Speaker E: She was really into that live springsteen Buck said, 74 to 84, whatever it is.
And that's the first time I ever heard that. I remember hearing. What do you. Guthrie, actually, I think was that. But anyway, no, I think she would have probably given us that as a lesson.
We also did Like a Rolling Stone at some point. It was all like, well, who's. Who are these characters? But I. I think Subterranean was the one that hit me because it just didn't sound like anything else. And that was the one that sort of. I want to know more. And, of course, nothing else sounds like that.
If you like that song. How about Nothing Else? Yeah.
[00:29:14] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: Nice. Anyone else want to respond to that?
[00:29:18] Speaker E: I think we should all respond to that.
Wild Card.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: Most impactful.
[00:29:24] Speaker C: I have to be the Homer. So I'll put in two Cincinnati ones. I mean, moments that were just breathtaking for me. Both live experiences. 1999 at Bogarts, which was different than any other show because it was just at a dive bar, essentially. And with very little notice. He announced that show. And I managed to get tickets and worm my way up very close to the stage. So I had never been anywhere remotely as close to Dylan, physically speaking, as. As I had then. And so that was great. And of all the many highlights that night, it was not fade away when he played Buddy Holly that just because it was so unforeseen. I was not someone who was following the tour and following set lists and listening to bootlegs at the time. So he played that song plenty of times. But I sure as hell never expected to. To hear him launch into it. And he just seemed so excited to be playing that song. Right. And now I can appreciate much more why that is his connection to Buddy Holly. And then the other is south of Cincinnati, right when he played, when he launched into that song, which I didn't even know until I get out of the place, open up my yonder pack, Google to see. It's by Dwight Yoakum, and then immediately text Aaron to say Bob Dylan just played south of Cincinnati. So, yeah, those were two magical live moments here in my adopted hometown.
[00:30:47] Speaker E: Didn't you purchase stock in Yonder at some point? Did you not do that? I should have the Yonder Bitcoin.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: I was giving a presentation in a high school locally a little while ago, and they were using. They make the students put their phones into Yonder packs.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: Oh, I love that.
[00:31:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:06] Speaker D: Interesting.
[00:31:07] Speaker E: At the movie last night, they just told us they brought a cop in. Wasn't that. Was that a real cop?
[00:31:17] Speaker F: But they did tell us to turn our phones off or we'd be asked to leave.
[00:31:21] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:31:21] Speaker F: I said, why didn't they just use Yonder pouches?
[00:31:24] Speaker E: Was yonder your ass out of here?
[00:31:27] Speaker C: Opposite of going electric.
[00:31:31] Speaker E: It was the stern. Don't. Here's an officer of the law. That's.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: It was Ed Norton in a police uniform.
All right, so any. Anybody else want to jump in there, or should we give it a spin?
[00:31:44] Speaker D: I can remember there are too many moments that are emotionally loaded, so I won't go there. But in this is an emotionally loaded one as well. Kind of thinking about Nina's question to Graylee, 2019 in Ithaca, seeing him play Grill of the north country, and he played it so tenderly, and it was as if he was saying goodbye to the song. And then he turns on a dime and walks back away from the piano towards the drum set and picks up the microphone and plays the minor key version of Not Dark Yet.
So it was just to be able to inhabit these two. These. This incredibly gentle, kind of mournful of that song doing it justice. And then also you get to see, as Graylee was describing. Sorry. As Court was describing, that notion of being close to him and seeing that kind of that. That frailty and recognizing that this is a person who will not be with us forever. And then at this. Then he turns and plays to the minor key version of Not Dark yet, which is just like. Doubles down on the impending shadows and faces it squarely with a kind of courage. Was. And. But still evoking and expressing this really dark vision. It was both moving in terms of my relationship with him as a performer. But it was impressive as a performer. It's like someone doing Midsummer Night's Dream and then doing King Lear. Like, it was like this. It was just. I was like, this man is an incredible.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: He does that every night. And he does that every night. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I have one. Can I share one?
So when he played Prospect park here a few years ago, and we decided to take my sister as a treat, and she's not really a music person, she's not really a fan. She just loves being involved in the things that I do. And she was excited to go. And it was an outdoor show with a band show at Prospect Park. And what was your basic Bob Dylan Never ending tour? We all. And once. Once he came on, it started. I was completely in my home heaven with the show and I kind of forgot that she was there. And then at the end, you don't know how he's going to land with non people outside our realm. You don't really know. And the show ended and I turned to her and I said, what are you? What did you think? And her eyes were shining. And she said, oh my God, it was fantastic. And I thought, oh, God, he's really that good.
You know, it's not just that it was a special moment between me and my sister, but oh my God, he breaks through to everybody. It was really.
It was great.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: That's beautiful.
[00:35:03] Speaker C: Listening to Rob's story, you said, and in the context of Court and Aaron's set list book.
[00:35:09] Speaker E: Right.
[00:35:10] Speaker C: So I can never think about songs in isolation anymore. I always think of the connection. So I'm glad that you talked about that transition from Girl from the north country to not dark yet, but now suddenly you're giving me a thought I've never had before of the links between those two songs. Not only between a way old song and a much more recent one, and the different kind of emotional palettes he's painting from there. But that line, I was born here and I'll die here against my will. To sing that right after Girl from the north country, which is a song about his or at least set in his roots, right? To then go from that to that, I mean, it feels like he's leapfrogged over 60 years of time to get from that song to that song, that's fantastic.
[00:35:58] Speaker E: You know what I was thinking about what y'all were talking too was like the non musical impact. And. And lately over the last couple years, I've been really drawn to his moments of escape and I Find those of what? Escape.
[00:36:11] Speaker B: Oh, escape.
[00:36:12] Speaker E: When he escapes. I mean, I think that the. The. The motorcycle crash, I think, seems. Resonates to me in ways that it never used to. Not the particulars, maybe even as a metaphor, but I just think it's such a. It's a moment that really moves me. Him going to Nashville on the train after hearing about Woody Guthrie dying and going to Nashville to record. He's writing songs on that in chronicles, when he's talking about the Grateful Dead, but also when he has that whole story. I know it's challenging as narrative, but. Or as accurate narrative. But the idea of him in South Louisiana on the motorcycle, too, or Mississippi. I just think those moments are just really beautiful. When he's talking in no Direction Home about growing up and having. I knew I had to get out of there. And even with Woody, when he says, I. I knew I wasn't going to go back to there. I knew I wasn't going back to the hospital. There's. Those are just, as I've gotten older, are just really profoundly moving moments that are stitched, obviously, to all the music, but also just resonate as a human being. The seventies, the early seventies. I don't know. I think that that whole idea just touches me in ways that when you're a kid, you're just learning the stories and you're like, these are the. This is the canon. And then it's like, this guy could have done anything and he did this, or he just backs away. I think that's really. Or frankly, the other moment is when he comes back to Newport. Right. When he goes to Newport, when he leaves the States from Newport and he goes back on stage at Newport. He didn't have to do that. And what he does there is like something you'd hear in the. Like a biblical account or something. But it's real. People saw it.
Let's do a Wild Card.
[00:37:49] Speaker A: I just want to check in. Aaron, did you have anything to say about that?
[00:37:52] Speaker F: I think with one of my favorite moments, I'm not allowed to talk about one of my most favorite moments.
[00:37:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I've been.
[00:37:59] Speaker F: I'm not allowed to talk about that.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: But an NDA.
[00:38:02] Speaker F: Yeah, I did.
Signed it. What?
[00:38:06] Speaker A: Who?
[00:38:07] Speaker F: What?
[00:38:07] Speaker E: Who signed the NDA with you?
[00:38:09] Speaker F: You? No, but in the 99 tour, he. When he played with Paul Simon, one show they would play. They'd always play Not Fade Away Together. And one show they would play Sounds of Silence, and then the other, they'd do the Boxer. And I saw the show in Camden in New Jersey. And they play. I think they played Sounds of Silence in that one. But then when I saw it in the. In Houston, they played the boxers, so I was really thrilled that we got.
Yeah. So that was really wonderful. I'm gonna maybe break the NDA.
[00:38:40] Speaker E: I already know what you're going to talk about.
[00:38:41] Speaker F: When you. All you wanted to see was Big River.
[00:38:44] Speaker E: Oh, this one? Yeah.
[00:38:46] Speaker F: In April, and he was warming up for in court was like, no, I'm like, it's Big River. And yeah, I think that was really a special moment because your smile was like. That was the best part of the show for me. I mean, seeing Dylan, of course, and being on the rail, but just seeing how happy you were to see that. That song and to be that close.
[00:39:03] Speaker E: Normally my smile's in a yonder pouch.
We all follow Dylan enough to know that if you expect him to do something, he ain't gonn do it.
[00:39:14] Speaker F: Right?
[00:39:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:15] Speaker E: I was like, hey, we're in Port Chester. What better place to hear Stella Blue or something? No.
[00:39:20] Speaker C: Yeah, right.
[00:39:22] Speaker A: I heard, like, the next night, Port Chester.
[00:39:24] Speaker E: I. Oh, hey, guys. Big River. He's playing a lot then he did.
That's good.
[00:39:32] Speaker F: But I think that the. When I brought up the recent tour, my early shows with Dylan were with my friend Carrie, and he passed away, and so there was this big poll, and then just the friendships that I've made and that I've seen him with Nina, with Jim and with Kourt a bunch of times and my friends in Chicago. And so I think that there's definitely that community that, like you were saying, Nina with your sister. Those moments then become so much more profound because we're sharing something that we all love. And then there we can all have those exchanges like we did last night after the movie, we went out and we chatted about it, and I think that's what makes it so wonderful. And then I get, like, when he plays Silvio when I see him in Tinley park after he resumes, and I'm like, you all know I love Silvio, and I've already seen it live, but I was so happy to see it because I missed it in Wisconsin, but then I got to see it in September in Tinley Park. And so the fact that I got to see it with people that I really care about was also wonderful, too.
[00:40:31] Speaker A: Very cool.
All right, let's get another one of these in here and spin that wheel.
And it's earned. It was just speaking.
[00:40:47] Speaker E: What do you think, Tom Dylan?
[00:40:48] Speaker A: You got a wild card.
[00:40:50] Speaker F: I got a wild card.
[00:40:52] Speaker A: So ask Whoever you want. Whatever you want.
[00:40:55] Speaker F: Whatever I want. It's a lot of pressure. Well, Nina asked a song that I like to add that I. Okay, so we can ask this song if. Or this question if you could have any bootleg come out, what would it be? What would the bootleg you'd want to hear be?
And I'll ask it to Rob.
[00:41:13] Speaker D: Oh, goodness gracious.
[00:41:15] Speaker F: It's everyone.
Rob first.
[00:41:19] Speaker D: So, so met. I mean, there's so much that's out there. It's hard to pick something that hasn't been. Hasn't been released. Oh goodness, that's a tough one. And I do. There was a time in the aughts when. The early aughts, when I was an avid collector of CDR bootlegs. And so I've got a whole mess of them. And so I'm trying to think here. I'm trying to think what I would want to hear. Oh, I know I would love to hear. I would love to hear. Even though we've heard some of them in terms of Mississippi, I would love to hear outtakes from Loan and Theft.
That would be. I think that would make a supreme bootleg series. I would be very interested to see because the musical palette is so various on that album and it's a, for me, a real high point in terms of his late career renaissance, whatever cliche you want to use for that. So yeah, if there was a. If there was bootlegged versions of those sessions where he was working through those songs to find just the right way to play moonlight, just the right way to play by and by, that's what I would go with.
[00:42:24] Speaker F: It's a great answer. Thanks.
[00:42:27] Speaker D: Sure. Thanks for asking.
[00:42:28] Speaker F: I. I agree. I want that bootleg.
[00:42:30] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:42:31] Speaker E: What about bootlegs that don't exist? Like, like the like magical bootlegs that we know He's Bar mitzvah.
[00:42:38] Speaker D: I don't know.
[00:42:40] Speaker B: Oh my God, I would go crazy to hear Rome.
I would lose my mind.
[00:42:48] Speaker E: I was in. I was in Tulsa for non Dylan related reasons last week and I ran into Michael and Adam, who are Dylan people, and they've been doing stuff in the archives and they were talking about Adam in particular. Somehow that there is a lot of stuff connected to Street Legal, like radically different versions I hadn't really thought about that.
[00:43:07] Speaker C: Sounds interesting.
[00:43:08] Speaker E: I would love to hear a nice compendium of all the Mid Neverending tour when he's doing all the covers and doing all the country songs.
That'd be cool. I mean, I know it's available, but be Cool to have, like, a nice sort of collection of.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: That's that Golden Vanity bootleg.
[00:43:25] Speaker D: That's a great one.
[00:43:26] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:28] Speaker D: Little Moses on that is just unbelievable.
[00:43:30] Speaker E: There's a lot of things in that period that are really cool. And his band's kicking ass too. That'd be cool.
[00:43:38] Speaker A: All right, well, I'm gonna. I wanna ask a question, just generally. I'm not even gonna spin the wheel.
How do you deal with. I'll call them normies who think your Dylan fixation is odd.
We've all dealt with it.
[00:43:56] Speaker B: That's a real problem for me because I don't have a lot of friends, so I don't have to deal with ordinary people.
[00:44:03] Speaker C: That's how you deal with it, right?
[00:44:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. So that's not. But, like, I'm teaching a course here next semester on late style. And Dylan is central to this. This is one of my critical focuses. So I have to bring him into the curriculum frequently. And there's a tremendous, real pushback. This man isn't a real artist. You can't discuss him in the same tone on the same mode that you discussed Goya or Beethoven, and I think you can. And I want to be a voice to support that. Rough and rowdy ways, sir, is equivalent or analogous to Goya's black paintings. And I get a lot. And so in my professional life, I get a lot of that eye rolling. And what were they thinking when they gave this man the Nobel Prize? And I find that very.
It's very demoralizing and depleting to me. It doesn't make me angry. It makes me unhappy and depleted. It's really a serious problem for me professionally. My peers do not take this seriously. They do not think this is material that merits scholarly attention at this level. And it's very isolating and depressing.
So that's my sad answer to this.
[00:45:32] Speaker A: They denied Jesus, too, but.
Sorry. But no, really, I want to ask you.
I want to ask you, Nina, what is the resistance? Because he's contemporary, or is it something else?
[00:45:45] Speaker B: Yeah, he's, you know, he's a 60s pop singer that's. He's not Goya and he's not Donald hall, and he's not Tennyson, and he's an.
He's a pop singer who's idolized by. He's a cult figure pop singer, essentially. He doesn't belong in a. On a literary curriculum.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: Well, even Tennyson's not Tennyson, but that's true. Ah, interesting. Anybody else?
[00:46:17] Speaker E: My first thought was, like, Rudy's New Orleans was what.
But then when Nina was talking, I was like, no, I mean, I don't want to get into this, but specifically. But this idea of, like, how it's viewed academically, I think is a real thing in terms of, like, I was asked at some point, not, you know, near past of like, questioning of what I. If I was doing was even historical. And that was the. That kind of stuff comes up a lot, often from people who, you know, have their own issues. But Nina, when you were talking, I was like, well, that's exactly the point. That's what it is. It's like not whether or not someone digs what you're into as a friend, but just like, I can't say scholarly pursuit without thinking of arrested development, but the idea of, like, what you do in terms of scholarship being questioned because what you're doing is with something that's modern or recent or popular or something like that.
[00:47:16] Speaker D: I would agree with Core and Nina in. In that. I mean, I have a rel. My home base where I teach, I have a relatively accepting group of colleagues that let me teach my Dylan course and accept that they respect it as. Yeah, yeah, that this is literature for sure. But I think. I mean, a lot of it. And I'm sorry to get so dry and boring here, but I think a lot of it has to do with the way in academia that the humanities themselves are kind of besieged all the time. And you have to justify. And this seems like a. A lot of people read this as, oh, you're just pandering. You're just. This is lowbrow pandering. And that's one response. And so people can be very territorial in that way. They're really worried about this kind of notion of this kind of canon. And if we let, you know, a 60s pop star into this canon, we're already in a moment of precarity. This will. This is just a kind of. You're pandering to students which, as Graylee mentioned, if you're teaching them Dylan, it's not pandering at all. It's a lot of. It asks a lot of them both in terms of their musical experiences and their literary experiences, to get the students to move towards the work and to actually listen to it and consider it closely. But yeah, I would agree with Nina and Cor in terms of my personal life. My long suffering partner, she's, you know, had seen many shows with me and at a certain point she was like, I'm done. This is. And so it's just. It's something that I keep from people in my personal life that I know are not kind of a true believer. So I'll come down into the little basement bolt hole that I have here and listen to my bootlegs. And I'm left alone to. To follow this faith that's been long abandoned by them.
[00:49:06] Speaker E: Your dill really works for students is pandering. I love how they think you're pandering.
[00:49:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a 20 year olds with.
[00:49:12] Speaker E: 20 year olds are like finally.
[00:49:17] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:49:19] Speaker C: But the flip side to that, of course, is that as we've been alienated or exiled from these various professional and personal communities, we found alternate communities. Right. We found our Dylan family in places like the Dylan Tons and places like the groups that Darren was referring to that we get together and watch shows with or the people we hang out with in Tulsa at conferences. Right. Or other real and virtual families we've adopted and been adopted by. And that's been really fulfilling. I mean, we've been in academia long enough to have had lots of different experiences and I've had different phases and different expertise. Times when I focused all on Samuel Beckett or times when I focused all on Don DeLillo. And though those were rewarding experiences in lots of ways, I've never felt more of a sense of community than I do right now with the people I hang out with in Dylan world. Like the people in this virtual roundtable right now. And so the. I have shared Nina's feelings too, about how disheartening and sad it is to feel that way sometimes that people aren't respecting or taking seriously Bob Dylan's art, the way we take it so seriously. But the flip side to that is how great it is that we've found each other. And so I feel very thankful for everyone on my little screen right now.
[00:50:48] Speaker D: Yeah, I feel the same way. Yeah, absolutely. And the Internet's been so helpful in that. I can remember being part of message boards and my partner, she decided she was done and I didn't have anyone to go to shows with. And I just struck up a conversation online with this guy, literally, who worked at a concrete factory outside of Boston and was. I mean, not an academic in any sense of the word, but this sounds very corny, but I can remember we're driving to a show because we're in Worcester and he's me with stories of past shows and. But then he's able to reel off the last verse of Mr. Tambourine man and I'm like, this is amazing that outside of these Little bubbles that I'm in that are so. This vital poetry resonates so powerfully with people. Yeah. So I agree 100% to your.
[00:51:40] Speaker F: Do you think like what we've all experienced and I share what you've experienced. And where folks at my campus say, oh, your obsession with Bob Dylan, I'm like, it's more than, yes, it is an obsession, but it's more than that. But doesn't that make maybe. And maybe this is too self important, but what we do even more important because we need to convert more people to see maybe what we see. And you said, Nina, that we're the bridge between that first generation and everything that comes after.
[00:52:11] Speaker B: I don't think it's working, but I don't think it's working.
[00:52:15] Speaker F: You don't think it's working?
[00:52:16] Speaker B: No, I don't.
Everything Graylee and everyone is saying is beautiful and true.
But we're a very high end cult, I sometimes think, and I really don't want that. I really don't want that. I want to hear, in the dullest possible way, Desolation Road discussed in partnership with the wasteland. And that's what I want. I want people to bring him into the conversations that we have about making meaning through the strongest art available to us and culture. That's what I want. But I'm a misanthropic person, so I don't need cults as.
So that's. I'm really. Thank you for bringing that up, Erin. And I really do worry that there's nothing to. There's nothing we can do about the world around us. But I don't think it's working, Aaron. I think my mission is failing.
So.
[00:53:26] Speaker F: Sorry.
I don't know what to say.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: I'm like, I'm sorry.
[00:53:34] Speaker A: Well, I'm a new historicist at heart, so I could care less about canon.
[00:53:38] Speaker B: See, you know, but we should end on Graylee's loving words of community.
[00:53:46] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:53:47] Speaker A: It's Kumbaya. I'll edit it so Graylee goes last.
[00:53:51] Speaker B: Don't do that.
[00:53:52] Speaker C: We don't do that.
[00:53:53] Speaker B: We should. Oh, my God.
[00:53:56] Speaker C: What?
[00:53:56] Speaker B: That was.
[00:53:58] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:53:59] Speaker B: I thought it was like. Yeah.
All right, people.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: Well, this has been lovely, everyone.
[00:54:04] Speaker B: Thank you so much.
[00:54:05] Speaker A: And have a great new year, you.
[00:54:09] Speaker B: Happy holidays to everyone.
[00:54:11] Speaker F: Really. Happy birthday, Jim. Happy birthday.
[00:54:14] Speaker A: Oh, happy birthday.
[00:54:16] Speaker B: Happy birthday.
[00:54:17] Speaker F: Thank you.
[00:54:18] Speaker E: Mine's in May.
[00:54:19] Speaker F: We know.
[00:54:20] Speaker D: Happy birthday.
[00:54:21] Speaker B: Happy birthday for it.
All right. Bye. Bye.
[00:54:25] Speaker A: Take care, everyone. Thank you, folks. Thank you for listening to the Dylan Pons podcast.
[00:54:32] Speaker E: Be sure to subscribe.
[00:54:33] Speaker A: Subscribe to have the dilenttantes sent directly to your inbox and share the dilenttantes on the.
