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Hey, everyone, it's Jim Salvucci from the Dylan Taunts.
A novelist and author of many short stories. Today's guest, John Badasta, teaches high school English near Boston, Massachusetts, under both a pseudonym and his real name. His fiction has appeared in many magazines including Yellow Mama, Alfred Hitchcock, Mystery Magazine, Wild side, Black Cat, and Tough Crime.
A veteran of more than 50 Bob Dylan concerts, he is the co author with Keith Namby, of Bob Dylan in Performance, Song, Stage and Screen, as well as other Dylan and Woody Guthrie articles.
So, John, welcome to the Dylan Hunts.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Yeah, we're excited to have you here. So tell me, what is it about Bob Dylan?
[00:01:02] Speaker A: What is it about Bob Dylan? Everyone asks me that because nobody understands my obsession with Bob Dylan. But I've loved Dylan since high school. So I think what it is about him is that he is absolutely unique. Nobody sounds like him, nobody writes like him, and yet at the same time, he is like so many other people. There are so many intersections where Dylan is singing the blues, Dylan is singing gospel, Dylan is singing American standards. I have learned so much about music and literature and history from my obsession with Bob Dylan, and it just keeps going deeper and deeper all the time.
So, yes, he's unique by being like everyone else.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: And how do other people react when you. You said you. You have a hard time explaining it, but how do they react when they find out how big you are into Dylan?
[00:01:59] Speaker A: It's the constant, oh, I like his music, but. Or his words, but by other people. Why can't he sound like Peter Fallen Mary? And I said, because that's not him. Like, he's the whole package. I've tried listening to covers, and a lot of them are nice. And people say, oh, you have to get this new album of Dylan covers, but nothing ever hooks in with those. It's. It's the performance as well. When I was in college, I had Christopher Ricks as a professor, and he taught me how to write. And he would always talk about how Dylan was about performance, how that one time he did Patty Carroll was perfect, and he never should have done it again, ever, and changed it because that performance actually solidified the words.
So for people to say to me, oh, I would rather listen to Dylan by way of someone else, it's okay. Do you really want to see an Alfred Hitchcock movie made by somebody else. You don't. That's what you're there to see.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: You don't want to see the remake of Psycho?
[00:03:05] Speaker A: No, absolutely.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I got to meet Christopher Ricks in France in my first Dylan conference. He's an interesting guy. He really is dedicated. Really was happy to help other people. He's a nice guy.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: He is just so kind. When Steve Namby and I both had him, we were roommates at Bull Boston University.
And Keith lives in California. And when our book came out, I was the one who got to give him a copy. We thank him there. And so much of our writing is influenced by Chris Barrett's. And I went into his office and we talked about things. I told him about a fight he and I had. Not a fight, but a disagreement on Dylan interpretation we had. And he looked at me and says, opposition is friendship.
And then he asked me, and it's just. So, Chris Burrix, which of my books do you not have? It's just a sort of. Which of those. Which of my books do you not have? I love that. And then he gave me a book on poets who argued with each other. Almost rap battles or something like that.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: So answer poetry. Yeah.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: Yes.
But it was a chance, actually, the disagreement we had. You know, way back in college, I was thinking that in Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts. I had this idea that Diamond Jim was actually Lily's father. And I had all these different examples. And I told him this, and he just looked at me and said, no. But when I give him the book 30 years later, I was able to say, hey, it was my book. And I put that in there. He loved that.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: That's great.
So tell me about your Bob Dylan origin story. How did you get first get into Bob?
[00:04:55] Speaker A: In the 80s, I was totally into pop. I was a techno pop guy. I love Duran, omd, Men at Work, all of that stuff. And it was.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: Did you have an accident? Is this going to involve an accident?
[00:05:09] Speaker A: No, there will, because there's a big change here coming.
But then We Are the World came up and I'm watching that to see all my guys, Huey Lewis or something like that. And then there's this one guy, I said to my father, who is that old homeless looking guy. And he gave me his copy, his mono copy of Highway 61. And that was it. I was totally on board with Dylan from there on out. And it was also good because when high school, you're looking for your own identity. You're looking for who you are, what makes you stand out. And Dylan really made me different from everyone else. In high school, it was a really big help to stake my own identity. This is who I am. I also, growing up in New England, I learned to like moxie. So listening to Dylan, drinking moxie, which, I don't know where you live, but moxie is like a combination of root beer and NyQuil, and only us die hard New Englanders can drink it. That really made me who I was. I've stuck with him all the white world. My first Dylan show was with Tom Petty in 86, and I'm still kicking myself to this day that I didn't get to see him with the grateful dead in 87. I think that's the only time he's come to the Boston area since he spent that. I've missed him.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: Wow, that's a. That's an impressive run there.
Tell us a little bit more about yourself. What are some of your other interests? You're a writer, you're a high school teacher. What else are you interested in? Just so people get to know you?
[00:06:45] Speaker A: I love my writing. I'm actually a very shy, solitary person. I don't know how I got married, actually. My wife's a bookseller, so that's. We're all about books in the house, so I love to read and write mysteries. And some of them are actually Dylan related, not like based on Dylan, but I always get a Dylan line or two in there somehow.
And I don't know what else about myself. That's pretty much it. I go to work and I teach kids how to read and write, and then I come home to relax, like, read and write and listen to Dylan as much as I can, which isn't so much in the house. I am the only Dylan fan in the house.
Sometimes I have to speak it in as a secret smoker or something like that.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: For those of you who aren't seeing this on video, behind John is a bookcase crammed with books and looks like CDs.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: Yeah, actually. Yeah. What's there is just the books. No, these are all way down there. And that's just one of five bookcases that's in this world.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: Okay. And it's a. And you can tell it's an active bookcase. I want to talk a little bit about your writing. What about your work as a novelist, a short story writer? What do you write about?
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Being such a shy guy, I actually write about everything that I can't do. A lot of my fiction is crime fiction, and a lot of it is from the point of view of the criminals. As a teacher, I like to try to get to understand people, get to know them. And so what fascinates me is how people can get away with doing such outrageous things. I don't even really jaywalk, which is unusual in Boston. But by writing my fiction, I get to actually try to see what it's like to be a person who breaks the rules, who isn't bound by convention, who does the outrageous thing that I would never contemplate doing myself.
So it's actually led me into some pretty dark places. A lot of my fiction is really.
It's not gory, but it is definitely dark. It is transgressive. Let's put it this way. When I had been married for 13 years, my first novel came out and my sister in law said, who did my sister marry?
It's me. But I really enjoyed just exploring the underside of what people do. And I'm also romantic, so I also like to write about bygone times. Most of my books take place even before I was born, in the 30s, 40s, the 50s, long before I was around. That's why I actually enjoy, unlike a lot of my friends who do Dylan, I love the American Songbook albums. I think they're fabulous.
And I think part of it is that I have this romantic idea of a time that I never even lived in.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: But there's gotta be more to it than that. What else attracts you to those albums, to those albums?
[00:09:48] Speaker A: Part of it is I didn't actually know most of those songs. And so a lot of listening to Dylan has taught me about things that I never even heard of. So they're the. The old songs. One thing that it's led me to is just, well, studying a lot of connections that I didn't know there. One was as a teacher, by creative writing. I'm always looking for poetry forms to teach my students. Things like that, short things that they can do in a class period or something like that. And I found it in an anthology, it's very easy to say a poem form called the Rubai or the Rubaiyat, you might have heard of Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam used to be the most famous, famous poem in the world.
And it was originally written in the 10th century by a Persian writer, Omar Khayyam. And the poems are just these four wine quatrains.
And so I was teaching some of the most famous ones out of my textbook. And then all of a sudden Tempest comes out.
And I'm listening to it. I'm like, I know that Line that's in a poem that I taught. And I started looking through Tempest and I realized that he has over and over again references to this poem that inspired T S Eliot to become a poet at all. He read it when he was 14. He's I have to be a poet. And so I started going through and I realized, oh, Dylan's using all of this Omar Cayenne stuff. And so I studied that. And I actually got to go down to Tulsa at World of Bob Dylan and present on that. But while I was there, I got to go to the Woody Guthrie archive. And it turns out that Woody Guthrie had completely rewritten the Rubaiyat in his own Guthrie way and recorded it and nobody else had ever heard it. And I got to listen to this, not at the archive, but from Smithsonian, they listened to it and I got to study Woody Guthrie's use of the Rubaiyat. And so I just keep going down all these different pathways. Woody's version is really different. What he did was he took this poem that's all about the idea of it's all carpe diem poetry. And what the English translator Fitzgerald did was he shaped it into a plot where this very conventional man starts getting very interested in wine and starting to question the world around him. In 10th century Persian, he would have been a Muslim. So he's got to keep the drinking part on the DL. Nobody even knew he was a poet until he had been dead for 50 years. And it was that poetry that kind of led Fitzgerald, who was probably a closeted gay man, to be able to express himself with this poetic mass, which is what attracted T.S. eliot. Oh, this great poem is about a man with a poetic mask. I have one. And then suddenly Woody Guthrie is putting on that same mask. Woody Guthrie is quoting one of his songs in Passages of Plenty when he talks about people who come with the dusk and they're gone with the wind, which is the line that Dylan quotes in Sol and 2World. And it's just this chain, this thousand year chain absolutely fascinates me. And I got that because I was teaching a four line poem to a bunch of ninth graders. And that's the thing about Bod Zyllum. Like, you just follow all of these threads and they go everywhere.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fantastic. The. Yeah, Fitzgerald. I believe that's the same Fitzgerald who was a translator of the Iliad and the Odyssey as well.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: No, it's a different one.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Different one.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Okay, a different one. And I actually teach the Fitzgerald Odyssey. Oh, do you there? Your pointing is like My Odyssey shelf.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Okay.
Oh, yeah. I see the Iliad there, I think.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
Probably my favorite book, actually. The Odyssey. The Odyssey. And Dylan's quoting that all through the Tempest, too. But that's more of Richard Thompson's area, so I'm gonna let him have that.
But, yeah. And now I'm confusing. Robert Fitzgerald's translated the Odyssey. And looking behind me, I can't find. I can't remember that. And I've written so much. But, yeah, different Fitzgeralds.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. I do have to clarify one thing. When you're saying Tempest is one of the very few Bob Dylan albums that has a title track. And so when you're saying throughout Tempest, do you mean the album or the song?
[00:14:33] Speaker A: The album. Although the song does have several Omar Khayyam references, like loveliest and the best comes from him. But I am. Actually, most of them are in, like, narrow way. He quotes the line about the moving finger rights and continues on. I don't remember the exact line of either of them, but I have it somewhere over here. What is the line? Well, narrow way. But he talks about, I saw you buried and I saw you dug out. And he talks about the moving fingers, moving on, and the line, be gentle, brother, be gentle and pray. All of those are Omar Kayan.
So he just kept popping up and popping up. But he does it actually throughout his career. He was doing it, maybe accidentally on song to Woody. And one day I was driving to school and I had Absolutely Sweet Marie on, and I heard about the drunken Persian. I'm like, ah, that's him. So again and again, keeps popping up. But mostly aren't the albums that.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: I interviewed Scott Wormuth a couple months ago. And he's the master of these connections. And it's just fascinating to contemplate this stuff, just these inner texts, these references, tying it with other musical artists, tying in with literary artists. And it's just a fascinating thing to really contemplate the depth of Dylan's literary form. We argue about whether he deserved a Nobel Prize in literature. Does he create literature? He argued, maybe not. But it's hard to separate it. It really is hard to separate his lyrics from literature.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: I absolutely think that it is literature. What he does is he takes everything in. We've always talked about the musical connections, but he takes in so many literary ones and then makes them his own. Can't separate the words from the voice, from the music. It's all of a piece.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Let's talk a little bit about the book you co authored with Keith Namby. Performance, Song, Stage and screen. I interviewed Keith quite a while ago. And so if listeners might want to go back and check that out, I should have the date at my fingertips. But I don't.
What inspired you to write about Dylan as a performer?
[00:16:50] Speaker A: It started out it was Keith's idea. Keith and I had been friends way back in college and he moved to the opposite coast, but he was in town giving a paper on Dylan. So I met him afterwards and it turns out that he had been offered, based on his presentation, a book deal, which he said yes to. And then he came and said I had never written a full book before. You want to write with me? I said, I write crime novels completely different. I haven't written an academic paper little or a book since college, since grad school. He encouraged me to do it and we just had so much fun together. We're such good friends anyhow. But writing together just, I think, brought us together quite a bit. We've written several other things since then and we're doing something now and it's just such a fun process. And if you read the book, you'll notice that Dick Altine, we didn't do this on purpose, but mostly he has the odd number chapters, I have the even number chapter. And we wrote everything together. But the. The spark of each particular chapter came from one or the other. And you can see that I focus a lot more on the literature. He focuses a lot more on the performative ideas. And I think the two of them come together really nicely. And since we both had Christopher Ricks and we're both deeply influenced by him, I can't go back and say he wrote that sentence or I wrote that sentence. I think it blends really well. It was such a fun idea to do and we didn't have any kind of a. An assignment, so we could really just follow every rabbit hole you wanted to follow.
And both of us found lots of rabbit holes. It was. It was just a great experience.
And yeah, it was just so much fun.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: If you don't mind my asking or you don't mind sharing, what are you working on now with Keith?
[00:18:48] Speaker A: Aaron and Aaron Callahan and Court Cardi are doing an 80s dynam book. And so that's what we're working on.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Ah, okay.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Our particular topic is that we think 80s Dylan was starting his archive then. We. I've never disliked the 80s because that was my entry point. But our basic attitude is at that point he was the middle aged rocker. There were a lot of middle aged rockers then, but they were breaking ground. There you didn't generally have middle aged rockers before that. They were like, what do we do at this point in our career? And Dylan again was at the forefront. He put out Biograph, which was like an archive. And I think that a lot of the studio albums were more like looking back at his influences, taking stock, cleaning out the attic, so to speak.
And it may not have been super original, but it was a way of kind of gathering sprites, seeing what he had. Everyone said he was a. Has been, he was even in the introductions, he's a husband in the 80s. And yet, boom. You suddenly get. After the. The acoustic album, the 90s, you get time out of mind. And then everything this century, which I actually listened to more than anything else.
But I think all of that was. You got to the 80s and needed to figure out what he had. Yeah, that's what we're working on now. It's coming along really well. We've come at it from two completely different directions and it's mixing up really nicely.
[00:20:28] Speaker B: And you contributed a chapter to their previous book on set list too.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Yes. We were looking at two different shows, one in 64 and the one in 66 on the world tour with the band. And our argument in that one was a lot of people look at 64 as, you know, the old Dylan stuck in the folk world. But we're arguing that he was already making that separation then, that he was already changing songs, his choice of songs were pushing away that old folky idea. It turns out that the one song that is common to both of those shows plus Newport was Mr. Tambourine Man. So we look at how Mr. Tambourine man is the pivot point that linked that whole time period.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: You've seen Dylan more than 50 times.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: Which now I'm finding out isn't quite so impressive compared to some of the other people.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: But yeah, I interviewed someone who had seen him over 300 times.
Wow. And I've seen him a little more than half of the time. Number of times you've seen him, but. So you've seen him many times. You've. Over decades, you have written a co. Written a book on performance, what stands.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: Out and all those performances, different things at different times. When he was with Tom Petty, the first time I saw him, he says in his chronicles, that was his low point, that he was ready to give up. But what I found was I didn't know this at the time, but looking back on it, it was such an exciting show and it's still the best performance of Knocking on Heaven's door that I've ever heard, that amazing harmonica solo that you can hear in the hard to handle video on hbo. It was just such a great show. And now that I know that he was at his low point, to think that he was such a professional, he's so good at his job that even not caring, not feeling it himself, he could give to his audience such an amazing show. I saw him at one of his absolute worst shows ever. That would have been in 91. I read on. I think it was on Ray Padgett's blog that the worst show was like, five shows after that in Europe. Rock bottom.
But he keeps coming back, like, nothing stops him. That's what I keep taking away from it. And in his later shows, I find that he's really sharing all of this knowledge that he's taken. And he really is like Homer, like Shakespeare, a person who conveys and passes on as much of the culture as you can. So I remember going to one show in maybe 2018. It was with Mavis Staples. That was a fun show. And we're at Boston University, and it was just such a good show where he was showing off his Sinatra songs, his connection with Mavis Staples. And it was a song. It was something off of Modern Times, maybe.
Oh, now I can't even think the song off the top of my head. The opening track.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Of what? Modern Times.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: Of Modern Times.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: The thunder on the mountain.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: Thunder on the Mountain. Oh, my goodness. But it has that great drum solo in it, and we're listening to it, and it was the drum solo from Wipeout.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: And it was like, in this one song, you're getting this whole history of music, and people were walking out because it wasn't what they wanted from 1974 or something like that. And my friend Matt and I were just in awe. Like, this is a masterclass on the history of American music, and people are walking out.
But most of the levers were gone by maybe two thirds of the way to the show. And then that last third for the True Believers. He was just outrageously good. And so every time we see him, it's like we're learning some history of music around the same conversation. I saw Paul Simon with my wife and son for his farewell tour. And it was a beautiful concert. He sounded exactly like he always did. And he set the show up like a history of American music as done by him throughout his career. And it was really nice and it was really sweet when he explained things. We would talk.
But seeing Dylan do the same thing and his Dylan esque way without talking to the audience, just letting the music do the talking.
That was the thing that I really held on to. I enjoyed the Paul Simon concert, but I lived for the Dylan shows. And his voice is better now than ever. And I've seen him when he was really bad. You know, I saw him one time where it was like Vandos Handles and like he. He was just gone. He thought he was never going to come back. But he's better than ever. He's grown into that voice that he was faking on the first album.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: And what do you think that is? Why do you think he's gotten better? Because I agree. But why do you think that is?
[00:26:07] Speaker A: I think he knows how to write for his voice.
I think before he was trying to match his voice to the words, he was putting on the fake oaky accent, he was putting on fake old black bluesman voices. It was all trying to be somebody else. Now he's just being himself.
And I think the new arrangements to songs to. To match what he's able to do. He knows what he can do, he knows what he can't do. And he's not trying to. He doesn't have improved anymore. Right. He's just going out there and showing what he's got. And those of us who are lucky enough to go along, we just are in awe of him.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. He has nothing to prove. I used to joke around after he won the Pulitzer, surprise. I said, all he's got left is the Nobel Prize and the Heisman Trophy. I don't think he's going to get pretty much got all the others.
I always like to ask people what other music they listen to and what you used to listen to Duran.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: And I still do once in a while.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: I still go back to my 80s pop, but I listen to a lot of Tom Petty now, a lot of Woody Godfrey. I'm still all in that American basic rock kind of area. Being from Boston, I like a little bit of Aerosmith, things like that.
But Dylan probably makes up about 80%, maybe even 90% where I listen to. But I love to go back to the 80s quite a bit. We had some really great local bands here. There was a band called oh Positive. They had almost the national hit went up, up, Up. We had Billy Squire who sang the Stroke and Brought Me Tonight. So we had a lot of great D stuff here in Boston. So I listened to those too.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: And is there any connection in that music to Dylan at all or is it just separate it?
[00:28:11] Speaker A: A lot of it is Straight up guitar, rock, guitar, bass, rock and roll. A lot of garage bands sounds. So again, that goes back to like the early 80s. Knocked out loaded is actually one of my favorite sounding records. There are a lot of Corn cruise on the record, but the sounds that he had for Knocked Out Loaded is probably my favorite. And it's just that loose guitar, the drums and not much else. No real mixing. It sounds like he's playing in a garage and playing in the nastiest dive you've ever been in.
So I think that's the connection there. He's taught me to actually spent listening to a lot of classic country for the longest time. Like I don't like country, but I saw him on the Outlaw, so I've seen him a couple of times with Willie Nelson, although Willie didn't play at the show that I saw. But getting into that classic rock and roll country music, old Johnny Cash. I love Chris Kriskoffs and I totally have memorized his first album. It all flows back to the Dylan's brand of rock and roll.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: You mentioned Knocked Out Loaded in the sound. So that I have to ask, what do you think about the sound on Empire Burlesque?
[00:29:32] Speaker A: I like it, but it's definitely dated. I think it works for that particular album. I don't think the songs he was writing would work with a Knocked Out Loaded kind of sound. Although I'd always love to hear Dylan try it. I like to listen to Empire Burlesque, but I can only listen to it maybe once every few months. Yeah, it's not bad, but it's a little too superficial, I think. And that, that, that was the problem with all of the 80s seismic music. It was. It just didn't go deep. And I liked it when I was a teenager. But yeah, it. It's a little too slick, I think. But the lyrics on there. Oh my God, the lyrics. People have always pointed out that, oh, it's just all movie quotes. But I think again, that's part of the archiving that he was doing. Michael Grace was, oh, he's just golden watching the late night show. But there's no way that he could actually quote so well and so much if he was just like this tired old guy. Like he had to be like trimming all of those lines. And that's what I'd love to do or I would love to go and investigate. I've looked at copies, it's been in mixer and things like his lyrics, but he never makes notes about. This is from Ralsei's Falcon or this is from the Rubaiyad of Omar Khayyam. But he's got that stuff in his head. So I would love to find something where he's writing down what he's listening to, what he's watching, what he's reading. Although I just. I saw that actually posted one of his favorite books today.
It was. Somebody posted. He posted that. It was.
He wanted to track down some publisher because they published his favorite book or a book that he loved. Something about the great God Pan. I don't remember. I just saw it on Expecting Rain this morning.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: I. Yeah, I saw something about that. I didn't get to investigate it. So that was from what, a tweet that he did?
[00:31:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: Really?
[00:31:39] Speaker A: Yeah. I would love to get a book list of his. Just. What do you read?
[00:31:43] Speaker B: I think you have to get your hand on that. Hands on that box that he talks about. You gotta get into that thing. Yeah. I find the. The pastiche methodology that he uses amazing. And I'm always a little. I'm always a little irked when people are dismissive of it, as though it's not a thing in and of itself. First off, it's conceptual art. It is a. A form of art. And he does it throughout his art. What are we going to poo poo? Matisse. When he started doing collages, or when I was in the 80s, I saw the great tenor saxophonist Sonny Rollins. And he was doing this series where he would just. He would improvise, quoting other songs, just playing other songs and making them work together. So he'd play a line from this song and a line from that song and a line from another song. And it wasn't planned. And in fact, I was. It was in Philadelphia, and the siren went by a police car. And he started imitating the siren and made it work in the improvisation. I always see Dylan. That's what he's doing, right? That's exactly what he's doing. This is not easy. It's not easy.
Yeah.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: He's not just making a found poem with random lines.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:32:54] Speaker A: What Richard Thomas points out is that on the album Tempest, he quotes extensively from the Odyssey, but it's a certain translation. It's the Hegel's translation. And it's only lines spoken by the mature Odysseus. So it's not just random lines. It's only that. And on Empire Burlesque, it's almost always lines about individual individualism from film noir. It's not just cool, random lines. It's about the individual. It's about that person who has to stand up and handle something on his own. Yeah, it's. There's nothing to dismiss. There's a lot going on there.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: John, this has been absolutely fabulous. Really enjoyed this.
Where can people find you online?
[00:33:44] Speaker A: Online? They can find me on Facebook.
I am on X, but I don't really do anything on there. So I think Facebook is the place to look. If they want to read some crime fiction, they can go to jntaylorcrimewriter.com is that your pseudonym? I noted myself.
I have that. So my. My students don't read my stuff, but I'm pretty sure my students are going to watch this podcast. Sorry. Oh, boy.
[00:34:12] Speaker B: Wow, you just opened a can of worms there.
[00:34:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I did.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: John, thank you so much for being on the Dylan Tons.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. I had a great time. Thank you very much.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Thank you for listening to the Dylan Tons podcast. Be sure to subscribe to have the Dillon Tons sent directly to your inbox and share the Dillon Tons on social media.
